#26 || BIDEN, #METOO, AND GROWING IN PUBLIC
TRANSCRIPT
Note: Transcripts may contain errors, and audio should be checked before quoting in print.
STEPHANIE
We’ve known for a while that Joe Biden inappropriately touched women. But more recently, he was accused of a much more SERIOUS incident of sexual assault.
And the Democratic Party leadership – which was VERY LOUD in its condemnation of Al Franken and John Conyers – has been much more……..SILENT.
But….is it possible to support Biden’s candidacy WITHOUT abandoning #MeToo?
Is it possible to BOTH take this more recent allegation seriously AND ALSO deem Biden a worthy candidate for president?
-
I’m Stephanie Lepp and this is Reckonings – an exploration of how we change our hearts and minds
And in this bonus episode – alas no, we’re NOT doing a restorative justice dialogue between Joe Biden and his accuser Tara Reade.
What we ARE doing, is being introduced to Reckonings’ NEW SISTER SHOW: Infinite Lunchbox
And we’re gonna hear an Infinite Lunchbox episode that explores precisely that question of whether it’s possible to take Tara Reade’s allegation seriously AND ALSO deem Biden a worthy presidential candidate.
Aaaand before we get there, a quick update on what / is up / with Reckonings:
-
SO: as many of you know, I’d been looking for a HOME for Reckonings (like Vox or WNYC or SOMEWHERE) that could take Reckonings on, and give it resources, and help it FLY
AND ALAS: I have not found a home yet, and I don’t know if I will
There is ONE potential (and potentially AMAZING) home I’m exploring, and that is: Rebel Wisdom.
If you want Reckonings to LIVE ON / on the Rebel Wisdom platform / TWEET AT @wisdomrebel (that’s one word: wisdomrebel) and let them know
Seriously, please do that: @wisdomrebel :)
ANYWAYS, all this to say: Reckonings could be meeting its fate – BUT!
ON A HAPPIER NOTE: other Reckonings-RELATED projects are taking off!
And I’ll introduce them to you over the course of these NEXT FEW bonus episodes – which may be the last episodes! – but hey, at least there will be a few episodes, back-to-back, for the next few weeks :)
-
In THIS episode, I’m gonna intro you to ONE Reckonings-related project
Which is, believe it or not, as I mentioned earlier: ANOTHER SHOW
The idea behind it is: there’s so much I want to talk to you about!
But Reckonings isn’t really the right place for ME to share thoughts and theories and other things – however Reckonings-related they might be
AND Reckonings is not very lean, and can get heavy…
AND SO: this new show is gonna be more me, more often, and more FUN.
And more VISUAL: it’s a podcast AND ALSO a YouTube channel.
And it’s called………INFINITE LUNCHBOX
INFINITE LUNCHBOX is devoted to giving you a FRESH TAKE on what’s going on
Meaning: a look at current events with the kind of expansive, and nuanced, and INTEGRAL perspective you’ll recognize from Reckonings
-
So we are now gonna hear ONE episode from the Infinite Lunchbox
Which explores the original question: is it possible to STAY committed to #MeToo WHILE supporting Biden’s candidacy?
[pause]
You can subscribe to Infinite Lunchbox wherever you listen and at youtube.com/c/infinitelunchbox
That’s youtube.com/c (for channel) /infinitelunchbox
Here we go:
-----------------------
You are opening the INFINITE LUNCHBOX – for a FRESH TAKE on what’s going on
I’m Stephanie Lepp and today we’re gonna get a fresh take on Joe Biden, MeToo, and the prospect of GROWING in public
[INSERT TITLE]
And we’re gonna start with / a little story:
(And please excuse the background noise in this episode – I prioritized speed over audio quality)
-
Last year, I was going to be interviewed by a restorative justice PODCAST about Reckonings episode #23
(Restorative justice is a response to crime that engages offenders and victims in REPAIRING the harm that was caused)
Reckonings is a podcast I produce about how people change their hearts and minds
And episode #23 tells the story of a survivor of clergy sex abuse and an ex-offender priest who are collaborating to bring restorative justice to the Catholic Church
And episode #23 features a survivor of clergy sex abuse and an ex-offender priest (who confessed and went to jail) and is now collaborating with that survivor to bring restorative justice to the Catholic Church
-
Anyway, so this restorative justice podcast was going to interview me about that episode
But the host kept postponing, and rescheduling, and when we finally got on the phone, she admitted that she / was just REALLY struggling with the episode!
Like of course she's pro restorative justice, and pro not judging people by the worst thing they ever did….but an ex-offender priest?!
Which is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE
(I never in a million years would have LOOKED for his story, and it’s kind of its own story how it fell in my lap...)
But so, this host and I had a really good conversation about how cases like this really TEST our commitment to restorative justice,
And we decided to talk about that explicitly in the interview, and we did the interview, and it went really well, and then.....
she didn't air it.
-
And I don't know for sure WHY she didn't air it, but I think it was because of….this same issue.
Again, the thinking is: pro restorative justice, and anti mass incarceration....but sex abuse?! And beyond that, CLERGY sex abuse?!
-
We’ll come back to that story in a bit.
For now, over to Biden:
-
Here’s what we know as of April 20th, 2020.
Last year, multiple women accused Biden of inappropriate touch in public.
Last April,
Biden came out with a video where he acknowledged that times have changed, and he needs to change with them, and be more respectful of people’s space, BUT! He didn’t QUITE apologize.
THEN, almost a year later, in March of this year,
a woman named Tara Reade publicly accused Biden of having much more seriously sexually assaulted her in 1993.
This more serious allegation has been covered by various news outlets, none of which have been able to corroborate it beyond one friend of Reade’s.
The New York Times’ Michelle Goldberg writes: "It would be easier to know what to do with Tara Reade’s accusation that Joe Biden sexually assaulted her if her tale were more solid, or if it were less."
The Biden campaign DENIES Tara Reade’s allegation, Biden has stayed silent, AND the Democratic establishment has stayed silent (for which they’ve gotten A LOT of blowback)
So that’s where we’re at.
-
The Democratic establishment is in a tight spot here, because they’ve leaned hard into “believe women” BUT! Biden is their presumptive nominee.
A headline in LEFTIST quarterly Jacobin Magazine reads: “For Elite Democrats, Joe Biden’s Candidacy Means Ditching #MeToo”
And thus far, there hasn’t been much room for NUANCE in the public discourse around #MeToo – supposedly either you believe women OR you ditch MeToo
-
Soooo….what do people who might otherwise support Biden’s candidacy do?
Is it possible to be BOTH pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy?
Let’s get into that with THREE FRESH TAKES:
-
FRESH TAKE #1: We might be in a different place today if Biden had responded to the initial allegations differently.
He basically said sorry-not-sorry, but what he COULD have said was:
The way women are treated in this country is changing, and thank God.
And…..some men are getting caught in the crossfire of this change.
But whatever we might think of the messiness and SOMETIMES unfairness of the process of change, there’s a bigger EVOLUTIONARY process that I want us to celebrate and support.
So to the women who have come forward against me:
THANK YOU for helping me treat you the way you want to be treated.
I APOLOGIZE for touching you in ways that were inappropriate and violating.
Evolution may not always be pretty, but it sure IS beautiful.
Had Biden said something like THAT in response to the LESS serious allegations THEN, I think he, his campaign, and the Democratic establishment would be better positioned to respond to the MORE serious allegation TODAY.
-
FRESH TAKE #2: Biden DIDN’T apologize then, and he could apologize NOW.
But here’s the point [point down]: we need to make enough ROOM for him to do that.
Imagine Biden comes out now and says: I deny Tara Reade’s allegation AND STILL I APOLOGIZE my sexual abuse of power.
Or imagine Biden invites the authorities to question him and the staff he had at the time of the allegation.
Or imagine he agrees to enter a restorative justice process with Reade.
How might the MeToo movement respond?
Too little too late?
Not genuine enough?
-
MeToo isn't just a reckoning with sexual abuse of power -- it's a reckoning with how we DEAL with sexual abuse of power.
For the high-profile men who are credibly accused, it’s a reckoning with how they ARE or in most cases are NOT using their positions of power to take leadership.
And for the rest of us, it's a reckoning with whether we make room for them to do that – with whether (under the right circumstances) we make room for public figures to GROW in public.
-
FRESH TAKE #3: Back to the original question: IS it possible to be BOTH pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy?
Is it possible to support Biden’s candidacy WITHOUT “ditching” MeToo?
I would say – provisionally – YES.
-
1) Tara Reade’s allegation has not been fully corroborated.
2) I think the more helpful interpretation of “believe women” is NOT to believe all women irrespective of evidence, BUT balance out the benefit of the doubt, which has historically been given to men. I.e. take women’s allegations seriously.
And therefore, for those of us who believe in taking women’s allegations seriously AND believe in due process:
I think it is – AT THIS MOMENT – possible to be pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy in a way that is provisional and perpetually adapts to the situation as it evolves – BOTH in terms of new information about the case AND in terms of how Biden responds to it.
And in cases this explosive, holding our views PROVISIONALLY is generally a good idea :)
Back to that restorative justice podcast:
-
There is some COGNITIVE DISSONANCE here (in the MeToo era / on the progressive side of things):
Where on the one hand – there’s a desire to be PRO-restorative justice and ANTI-mass incarceration and ANTI-judging people by the worst thing they ever did…..
Which can come into conflict with a desire to be PRO-gender equality and PRO-MeToo and PRO-if not zero tolerance then at least MINIMAL tolerance for perpetrators of sexual abuse.
But the beauty here is: we don’t actually have to choose!
We don’t have to choose between, let’s say, consequences OR compassion
-
Restorative justice and traditional criminal justice aren't mutually exclusive -- just because someone's sitting in jail doesn't mean they can't work to repair the harm they caused.
And ABSOLUTELY, people should endure the consequences appropriate to their actions AND ALSO have the opportunity to learn and change and GROW from their actions -- for their sake and for all of ours.
And so:
-
In conclusion:
#MeToo (in earnest) is 3 years old – how has our public discourse around it evolved in that time?
Many people think there was NO room for Al Franken to have a successful public reckoning – would that be different today?
Are we better at holding BOTH consequences AND compassion?
-
Ultimately, I think it IS provisionally possible to be both pro-MeToo and pro-Biden’s candidacy AND! I also think we have some work to do to make that less provisional.
We have to create the conditions conducive to change we want to see.
---------------------
Aaaand that was Biden, MeToo, and GROWING in public – an episode of Infinite Lunchbox, brought to you by Reckonings
While we’re talking Infinite Lunchbox, allow me to plug another show called STONG FEELINGS – which is about bringing feminism to work
Best friends and cohosts Sara and Katel get real with authors, entrepreneurs, and others / on topics like: why crying at work is totally fine, and what it looks like to face our stereotypes.
You can find STRONG FEELINGS wherever you listen and at strongfeelings.co,
And you can find INFINITE LUNCHBOX wherever you listen and at youtube.com/c/infinitelunchbox
See you there :)
Note: Transcripts may contain errors, and audio should be checked before quoting in print.
STEPHANIE
We’ve known for a while that Joe Biden inappropriately touched women. But more recently, he was accused of a much more SERIOUS incident of sexual assault.
And the Democratic Party leadership – which was VERY LOUD in its condemnation of Al Franken and John Conyers – has been much more……..SILENT.
But….is it possible to support Biden’s candidacy WITHOUT abandoning #MeToo?
Is it possible to BOTH take this more recent allegation seriously AND ALSO deem Biden a worthy candidate for president?
-
I’m Stephanie Lepp and this is Reckonings – an exploration of how we change our hearts and minds
And in this bonus episode – alas no, we’re NOT doing a restorative justice dialogue between Joe Biden and his accuser Tara Reade.
What we ARE doing, is being introduced to Reckonings’ NEW SISTER SHOW: Infinite Lunchbox
And we’re gonna hear an Infinite Lunchbox episode that explores precisely that question of whether it’s possible to take Tara Reade’s allegation seriously AND ALSO deem Biden a worthy presidential candidate.
Aaaand before we get there, a quick update on what / is up / with Reckonings:
-
SO: as many of you know, I’d been looking for a HOME for Reckonings (like Vox or WNYC or SOMEWHERE) that could take Reckonings on, and give it resources, and help it FLY
AND ALAS: I have not found a home yet, and I don’t know if I will
There is ONE potential (and potentially AMAZING) home I’m exploring, and that is: Rebel Wisdom.
If you want Reckonings to LIVE ON / on the Rebel Wisdom platform / TWEET AT @wisdomrebel (that’s one word: wisdomrebel) and let them know
Seriously, please do that: @wisdomrebel :)
ANYWAYS, all this to say: Reckonings could be meeting its fate – BUT!
ON A HAPPIER NOTE: other Reckonings-RELATED projects are taking off!
And I’ll introduce them to you over the course of these NEXT FEW bonus episodes – which may be the last episodes! – but hey, at least there will be a few episodes, back-to-back, for the next few weeks :)
-
In THIS episode, I’m gonna intro you to ONE Reckonings-related project
Which is, believe it or not, as I mentioned earlier: ANOTHER SHOW
The idea behind it is: there’s so much I want to talk to you about!
But Reckonings isn’t really the right place for ME to share thoughts and theories and other things – however Reckonings-related they might be
AND Reckonings is not very lean, and can get heavy…
AND SO: this new show is gonna be more me, more often, and more FUN.
And more VISUAL: it’s a podcast AND ALSO a YouTube channel.
And it’s called………INFINITE LUNCHBOX
INFINITE LUNCHBOX is devoted to giving you a FRESH TAKE on what’s going on
Meaning: a look at current events with the kind of expansive, and nuanced, and INTEGRAL perspective you’ll recognize from Reckonings
-
So we are now gonna hear ONE episode from the Infinite Lunchbox
Which explores the original question: is it possible to STAY committed to #MeToo WHILE supporting Biden’s candidacy?
[pause]
You can subscribe to Infinite Lunchbox wherever you listen and at youtube.com/c/infinitelunchbox
That’s youtube.com/c (for channel) /infinitelunchbox
Here we go:
-----------------------
You are opening the INFINITE LUNCHBOX – for a FRESH TAKE on what’s going on
I’m Stephanie Lepp and today we’re gonna get a fresh take on Joe Biden, MeToo, and the prospect of GROWING in public
[INSERT TITLE]
And we’re gonna start with / a little story:
(And please excuse the background noise in this episode – I prioritized speed over audio quality)
-
Last year, I was going to be interviewed by a restorative justice PODCAST about Reckonings episode #23
(Restorative justice is a response to crime that engages offenders and victims in REPAIRING the harm that was caused)
Reckonings is a podcast I produce about how people change their hearts and minds
And episode #23 tells the story of a survivor of clergy sex abuse and an ex-offender priest who are collaborating to bring restorative justice to the Catholic Church
And episode #23 features a survivor of clergy sex abuse and an ex-offender priest (who confessed and went to jail) and is now collaborating with that survivor to bring restorative justice to the Catholic Church
-
Anyway, so this restorative justice podcast was going to interview me about that episode
But the host kept postponing, and rescheduling, and when we finally got on the phone, she admitted that she / was just REALLY struggling with the episode!
Like of course she's pro restorative justice, and pro not judging people by the worst thing they ever did….but an ex-offender priest?!
Which is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE
(I never in a million years would have LOOKED for his story, and it’s kind of its own story how it fell in my lap...)
But so, this host and I had a really good conversation about how cases like this really TEST our commitment to restorative justice,
And we decided to talk about that explicitly in the interview, and we did the interview, and it went really well, and then.....
she didn't air it.
-
And I don't know for sure WHY she didn't air it, but I think it was because of….this same issue.
Again, the thinking is: pro restorative justice, and anti mass incarceration....but sex abuse?! And beyond that, CLERGY sex abuse?!
-
We’ll come back to that story in a bit.
For now, over to Biden:
-
Here’s what we know as of April 20th, 2020.
Last year, multiple women accused Biden of inappropriate touch in public.
Last April,
Biden came out with a video where he acknowledged that times have changed, and he needs to change with them, and be more respectful of people’s space, BUT! He didn’t QUITE apologize.
THEN, almost a year later, in March of this year,
a woman named Tara Reade publicly accused Biden of having much more seriously sexually assaulted her in 1993.
This more serious allegation has been covered by various news outlets, none of which have been able to corroborate it beyond one friend of Reade’s.
The New York Times’ Michelle Goldberg writes: "It would be easier to know what to do with Tara Reade’s accusation that Joe Biden sexually assaulted her if her tale were more solid, or if it were less."
The Biden campaign DENIES Tara Reade’s allegation, Biden has stayed silent, AND the Democratic establishment has stayed silent (for which they’ve gotten A LOT of blowback)
So that’s where we’re at.
-
The Democratic establishment is in a tight spot here, because they’ve leaned hard into “believe women” BUT! Biden is their presumptive nominee.
A headline in LEFTIST quarterly Jacobin Magazine reads: “For Elite Democrats, Joe Biden’s Candidacy Means Ditching #MeToo”
And thus far, there hasn’t been much room for NUANCE in the public discourse around #MeToo – supposedly either you believe women OR you ditch MeToo
-
Soooo….what do people who might otherwise support Biden’s candidacy do?
Is it possible to be BOTH pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy?
Let’s get into that with THREE FRESH TAKES:
-
FRESH TAKE #1: We might be in a different place today if Biden had responded to the initial allegations differently.
He basically said sorry-not-sorry, but what he COULD have said was:
The way women are treated in this country is changing, and thank God.
And…..some men are getting caught in the crossfire of this change.
But whatever we might think of the messiness and SOMETIMES unfairness of the process of change, there’s a bigger EVOLUTIONARY process that I want us to celebrate and support.
So to the women who have come forward against me:
THANK YOU for helping me treat you the way you want to be treated.
I APOLOGIZE for touching you in ways that were inappropriate and violating.
Evolution may not always be pretty, but it sure IS beautiful.
Had Biden said something like THAT in response to the LESS serious allegations THEN, I think he, his campaign, and the Democratic establishment would be better positioned to respond to the MORE serious allegation TODAY.
-
FRESH TAKE #2: Biden DIDN’T apologize then, and he could apologize NOW.
But here’s the point [point down]: we need to make enough ROOM for him to do that.
Imagine Biden comes out now and says: I deny Tara Reade’s allegation AND STILL I APOLOGIZE my sexual abuse of power.
Or imagine Biden invites the authorities to question him and the staff he had at the time of the allegation.
Or imagine he agrees to enter a restorative justice process with Reade.
How might the MeToo movement respond?
Too little too late?
Not genuine enough?
-
MeToo isn't just a reckoning with sexual abuse of power -- it's a reckoning with how we DEAL with sexual abuse of power.
For the high-profile men who are credibly accused, it’s a reckoning with how they ARE or in most cases are NOT using their positions of power to take leadership.
And for the rest of us, it's a reckoning with whether we make room for them to do that – with whether (under the right circumstances) we make room for public figures to GROW in public.
-
FRESH TAKE #3: Back to the original question: IS it possible to be BOTH pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy?
Is it possible to support Biden’s candidacy WITHOUT “ditching” MeToo?
I would say – provisionally – YES.
-
1) Tara Reade’s allegation has not been fully corroborated.
2) I think the more helpful interpretation of “believe women” is NOT to believe all women irrespective of evidence, BUT balance out the benefit of the doubt, which has historically been given to men. I.e. take women’s allegations seriously.
And therefore, for those of us who believe in taking women’s allegations seriously AND believe in due process:
I think it is – AT THIS MOMENT – possible to be pro-MeToo AND pro-Biden’s candidacy in a way that is provisional and perpetually adapts to the situation as it evolves – BOTH in terms of new information about the case AND in terms of how Biden responds to it.
And in cases this explosive, holding our views PROVISIONALLY is generally a good idea :)
Back to that restorative justice podcast:
-
There is some COGNITIVE DISSONANCE here (in the MeToo era / on the progressive side of things):
Where on the one hand – there’s a desire to be PRO-restorative justice and ANTI-mass incarceration and ANTI-judging people by the worst thing they ever did…..
Which can come into conflict with a desire to be PRO-gender equality and PRO-MeToo and PRO-if not zero tolerance then at least MINIMAL tolerance for perpetrators of sexual abuse.
But the beauty here is: we don’t actually have to choose!
We don’t have to choose between, let’s say, consequences OR compassion
-
Restorative justice and traditional criminal justice aren't mutually exclusive -- just because someone's sitting in jail doesn't mean they can't work to repair the harm they caused.
And ABSOLUTELY, people should endure the consequences appropriate to their actions AND ALSO have the opportunity to learn and change and GROW from their actions -- for their sake and for all of ours.
And so:
-
In conclusion:
#MeToo (in earnest) is 3 years old – how has our public discourse around it evolved in that time?
Many people think there was NO room for Al Franken to have a successful public reckoning – would that be different today?
Are we better at holding BOTH consequences AND compassion?
-
Ultimately, I think it IS provisionally possible to be both pro-MeToo and pro-Biden’s candidacy AND! I also think we have some work to do to make that less provisional.
We have to create the conditions conducive to change we want to see.
---------------------
Aaaand that was Biden, MeToo, and GROWING in public – an episode of Infinite Lunchbox, brought to you by Reckonings
While we’re talking Infinite Lunchbox, allow me to plug another show called STONG FEELINGS – which is about bringing feminism to work
Best friends and cohosts Sara and Katel get real with authors, entrepreneurs, and others / on topics like: why crying at work is totally fine, and what it looks like to face our stereotypes.
You can find STRONG FEELINGS wherever you listen and at strongfeelings.co,
And you can find INFINITE LUNCHBOX wherever you listen and at youtube.com/c/infinitelunchbox
See you there :)
